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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  17:15:02  Show Profile
When you want to add a label to a jar or bottle how could you use the lattice tool? I created a rounded rectangle in Strata and added a texture map. What would be the best amount of control points if this is the best approach? Thanks.

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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  17:48:09  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
I'm not following what you want to do with the lattice.

Jean
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bbible
A Regular

USA
132 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  21:26:44  Show Profile
Wrapping a 'non-flat' texture to another 'non-flat' texture. Correct?

I've been using the lattice tool for some similar items the past few days and have been wondering myself if there might be a better (or easier) solution to the same problem.
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Brian Lawson
A Fountain of Information

USA
5217 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  21:37:30  Show Profile  Visit Brian Lawson's Homepage  Send Brian Lawson an AOL message
Change the Texture's Map style in the Object Properties palette to one of the Cylindrical choices. This will wrap it around the bottle for you.

Brian Lawson
Strata Technical Support
support (at) strata (d0t) com
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  22:04:28  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
right. The lattice will never do a good cylindrical wrap.

You can model a separate label, which will be an open cylinder, or you can just map the label over the existing bottle shape. You cannot bend a straight sheet into a perfect cylinder with the lattice deformer. Some applications have cylindrical wrap deformers, but Strata does not. But you don't need one for a simple task like this.

Jean
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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  11:35:09  Show Profile
Okay, Here is my attempt to map the label on a cylindar modified to go half way around the jar. I can't seem to rotate the mapped image. I was hopping the lattice thing would have worked. Don't know the trick- any ideas? Thanks.

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Brian Lawson
A Fountain of Information

USA
5217 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  11:38:24  Show Profile  Visit Brian Lawson's Homepage  Send Brian Lawson an AOL message
Switch to an Isometric view so you can rotate the label texture up. You are viewing the control handle you need straight on in that view making it difficult to use.

Brian Lawson
Strata Technical Support
support (at) strata (d0t) com
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eg
A Regular

132 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  11:38:52  Show Profile
view in isometric to see the Red cylinder shape(texture position) better

eg
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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  17:01:23  Show Profile
Still can't map it correctly. Thanks for the advice on rotating it in Isometric View though.



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Brian Lawson
A Fountain of Information

USA
5217 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  17:05:17  Show Profile  Visit Brian Lawson's Homepage  Send Brian Lawson an AOL message
Apply it directly to the bottle then Rotate it and position it on the bottle. You should also Scale it so it is round, like the bottle.

There are a lot of bottle models in the Resources section of the Cafe you can download and take a look at to see how this is done.

Brian Lawson
Strata Technical Support
support (at) strata (d0t) com
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2009 :  18:16:11  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
you can use the partial label you show above if you would like, but you need to use a reduced coverage on the X dimension if you do so. Just guessing, based upon the image you show, you are probably going to need something around 30 to 40% (instead of 100%) for X coverage, whether you use a modeled label or map directly to the bottle.

If you stick with the modeled label, finish the mapping up as Brian says, by scaling it so that the red cylindrical indicator is round when viewed from above, not oval as you have shown.

Jean

Edited by - jpro on 11/05/2009 18:19:02
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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2009 :  13:00:42  Show Profile
Still working on this. I enlarged the area around the label with white around it on sides, top and bottom. I made sure the map position was rounded - it applies it in a oval for some reason. Now I can't stretch it vertically. Do I add a stencil so the jar is not turned white?


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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2009 :  13:09:04  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
hey Cashew, how much trouble would it be for you to share the label model and the label art? If you don't want to share the actual label art, you can block out the client-specific art and just type in some holder text and shapes, but the real art would be best. If you don't want to post it here, maybe you could email it to me

jpro2 [at] swbell [dot] net

Jean
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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2009 :  14:31:07  Show Profile
Sorry I couldn't upload even after archiving, get an error message. I am doing this as an exercise on my own-no confidential issue here. I will have to email it. Thanks.
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2009 :  20:04:35  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
what I did not realize until I saw your actual file is that you are working with a photo of the label on the bottle, already wrapped. You don't want to do it that way.

You want to build your bottle in virtual 3D similarly to how it would be built in the real world. You want to build your label art as you would build your label production file.

This is a group of files, you will see my Illustrator file, the color and stencil maps I pulled from them, and you will see them on the bottle in the scene.

be sure and look at my calculations in the illustrator file. Your bottle is only 1.83" in diameter, which is more the size of a spice bottle than a pasta sauce jar, but it works, it is just a little strange to model that small. I'm sure you were not taking real-world measurements into account, but I usually do.

here you go, these are strata 5.5 and Illustrator CS3:

http://www.mostly3d.net/test/jar_with_label.zip

here is a rendering from that file. I touched your glass material up a bit, added thickness to your jar, and made the jar one-sided.

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Jean

Edited by - jpro on 11/20/2009 20:08:54
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  14:03:53  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
Okay, Cashew could not open my file, so I will post the how-to here. It's long, please read it all.

First, to make the label texture from my label jpegs, you need to create a new image texture, and load the images into the appropriate channels

(please note: I rarely use jpeg images for final artwork that is to be printed, as the quality is not the highest possible. TIFF or PSD and some others work better. However, I frequently use jpegs saved at highest possible quality for comps. JEGs frequently perform poorly for bump maps, though, so keep an eye out for that.)

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Jean

Edited by - jpro on 12/06/2009 14:05:00
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  14:11:30  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
Now, to put a label on the jar:

I happen to know that Cashew is a packaging designer, so I am directing her to learn this the best way for a packaging designer working with real-world packaging, not the most expedient way for a general-purpose 3D artist.

I created geometry for the label that is the actual size of the label (which is a hair larger in diameter than the jar.) This is easier to work with than trying to map the label to the whole jar geometry, gives you much more control of fitting the label to the jar, and gives you vastly more flexibility for future operations you may need to do with the label.

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more coming...

Edited by - jpro on 12/06/2009 14:34:08
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2009 :  14:28:32  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
When you use stenciled textures, you can manipulate the stencil effect further by switching the transparent or white option on the stencil channel

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If I set this option to White, the masked-out area will render as white. If I set it to Transparent, the masked-out area will not render at all.

If I want to add a back label, as this sort of jar usually requires, I have two options. I can build the back label into the same color art and stencil art. That would require me to move the front label art and mask to one side, and build the back label mask on the other side.

The other way I could add a back label is to layer a second label texture on the same geometry. If i layer a second label over the first one, I would additionally have to rotate it so that it faces backward instead of forward. then, the important part: the lowest texture would be set to White in the stencil option, the higher texture would be set to Transparent.

There are other more advanced issues you will undoubtedly get into if you do a lot of label-on-bottle type projects, but this is a good start.

Jean
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Cashew
Infrequent Poster

17 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  17:39:17  Show Profile
Thanks Jean for the demonstration. I added a label to my file just like you demonstrated. I have 5.5 and did not see the option for white or transparent under stencil, but it worked anyway. Now I used the Glass texture for the jar. I added red to the Color and it appears in the Diffuse Color at 96% in the glass texture. Maybe a bump texture of particles of seasoning or a photograph of tomato sauce would be a better option for creating the sauce more realistic?

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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  22:39:52  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
Hi Cashew,

5.5 definitely does have the option for white or transparent. Just click and hold the stencil button, as I indicate with the green outline in the last screenshot.

If I were going to put the sauce inside the bottle, I would make a separate shape, and make it the red color (I'd go deeper in color than what you show.) I would leave the glass a clear glass. I changed your glass some, but until you can open my file, you won't be able to see what I did with it.

But, our purpose here was to slap a label on the bottle: it appears you have done that. Good start!

Jean

Edited by - jpro on 12/12/2009 00:21:21
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FlashInPan
A Regular

USA
189 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2013 :  18:25:10  Show Profile  Visit FlashInPan's Homepage  Send FlashInPan an AOL message
That's a pretty detailed explanation. Very helpful.

I've had problems when I try to wrap a label around a box (such as a sleeve). That's always given me problems as the above techniques don't seem to really apply.

Al Luckow | New Media Architect | www.luckow.com
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